Dr. Thomas Elsen is associate director of the art collections and museums in Augsburg, Germany, head of the „Neue Galerie im Höhmannhaus“ and the „H2“ Center for Contemporary Art. He established the section for 20th and 21th century art not only institutionally but also with an exceptionally state-of-the-art agenda. Recent projects of the the Galerie im Höhmannhaus include "The Open Public Library" by Clegg & Guttmann, or "Brot und Butter" by german artis group Empfangshalle. In the course of the latter a statue of mythological mercury from a public fountain was disassembled and reinstalled in the Höhmannhaus. Sitting next to it, the wardens of the gallery invited visitors for lunch. Recently gallery Höhmannhaus opened a show by artist group "WochenKlausur" which focuses on thematical project work – which can only become significant if it's relocated in an institutional environment- rather than on producing mere objects of art.

In 2006, Thomas Elsen became head of a new 2000 m² sized exhibition space, the H2 – Center for Contemporary Art in the Glass Palace. H2, supported by acquisitions of the Höhmannhaus, features its own collection and has called attention with striking modernity, cutting across the boundaries of classical art. Its first solo show was an installation by Fabrizio Plessi (LAVA, 2006); currently (until the end of october), pieces of their own collection including new acquisitions are shown. Photos show the opening of the show "WochenKlausur" in the „Neue Galerie im Höhmannhaus“ and the H2. To Thomas Elsen talked Dr. Ulrike Ritter.

Ritter: Dr. Elsen, you are the head of the Galerie im Höhmannhaus and the H2 - Zentrum für Gegenwartskunst - in Augsburg.

Do these two spaces somehow adjust their programs?

ELSEN: There are quite a lot of works which can be seen in the H2 - our new, still developing collection - which are rooted in projects of the Höhmannhaus. Thus it's reasonable to talk about a close relation between these halls. We'll go on keeping this relation alive simply because the Höhmannhaus audience is potentially also an audience for the H2. So both halls can mutually attract attention.The advantage of the Höhmannhaus is its fantastic downtown displaywindow-situation.

Ritter: How many visitors attend their respective shows?

Elsen: In its first year H2 had 20.000 visitors, excluding 10.000 in the Neue Galerie im Höhmannhaus, resulting in 30.000 people interested in a pretty distinct program of contemporary art. Comparing this to similar sized cities and their respective institutions I should think this is a sound result. Of course it's not only the plain numbers that count but also the quality of the debate. For our visitors, books and additional information are on display since we emphasize the importance of our goal that those interested in our shows draw something from their visit. It's not a matter of quantity but of quality and intensity of examination and contemplation.

Ritter: In your recent exhibition by artist group "WochenKlausur" you show a project on water supply in third-world-countries which aims at actual impact in a system extrinsic to art, rather than a conventional show. Is this more difficult to justify than, say, the fotos by Kathrin Alt whose show can be seen in August in the Neue Galerie?

Elsen: Well, we can only wait and see how the reactions will be eventually. The artists are already working on the project since more than a week. As a matter of fact it's not a classical exhibition. We installed an office-like setup for WochenKlausur, including the complete infrastructure, phone, internet, and so on. This alone has been quite an adventure – getting it done in an urban, public space environment. But it worked out, and the gallery has become a temporary project office. Naturally, it can be visited like an ordinay exhibition. This has the great advantage of people asking „what's this supposed to be?“ right away and subsequently starting a discussion: whether this is art or not, and if it was what makes the artistic quality or value of it.

In this specific case their work is all about water, the improvement of water supply in very concrete situations in third world countries for which the artists want to put up a network: between the University of Augsburg, several institutes and municipal authorities, but also at the federal level. Since the PAX-Festival of Augsburg is held under the main topic of „water“ we agreed on a collaboration with the administrative organisation of PAX.

And if the artists archieve their aims, like decontaminating a drinking water well in a small village in Bangladesh that has been poisened for years, then there probably will still be people saying 'but that's got nothing to do with art'. But the whole thing will attain a positive perception, like you could say this wouldn't work today if it weren't for our project at Höhmannhaus. And that's actually our starting point. The museum becomes a starting platform for some kind of social intervention. WochenKlausur already did that in many cases. Each project including the current one has emerged from an invitation of an art institution to get the point through they understand it as art.

Ritter: So you would say it actually IS art? Maybe because positive reception of the public makes them consider the spark of inspiration it brings about?

Elsen: What WochenKlausur do certainly is art to me, social art. If it wasn't, it would not work at all. Only by declaring some enterprise as art in the first place you get something going which wouldn't happen in an ordinary manner. If I approach an institution, like a company, as a private individual and say that I don't like it that the people of some remote village in Bangladesh have unsufficient water supply, I won't come up to anything.

But if I say it's an artistic project which therefore is kind of inherently institutionalized because of the supporting museum; and when this is well communicated, then a completely different process is established. From the awareness that it is art. Art ist always connected to some sort of mental energy, and with a process that wouldn't come about in a different, non-artistic manner.

It's a completely different question whether this is the only type of acceptable art. Projects like these do not at all interfere with the fact that one still has high-quality oil paintings on canvas on the wall. Art hasn't been confined to only few classical styles since long ago, it contains a variety of genres. Ultimately, it is quality that counts. If people are able to realize transparent projects that yield good results that's good art for sure. If the realization fails it may be a temporal effect, but then the idea of quality would have to be discussed quite differently.

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Ritter: Do you get the feedback sometimes that a show was something very special?

Elsen: Yes we do, since we get live feedback from our audience. If someone is really, really displeased – which is, thank god, very rarely so - then they say so right away. We don't run away from it. In the same way we are happy about positive comments. You could see that during our project with Empfangshalle very well, a project that was pretty debatable, too: what's the point with it, why is this art and so on. And people did discuss, and they wrote comments in the guestbook, where you can follow the debate nicely. And that was what we intended to archive. We are no missionaries, we don't want to educate people to accept or 'like' everything. When they start thinking about why they like or dislike certain things we have accomplished quite a lot.

Ritter: In 2007 you introduced artist group Empfangshalle at Venice Biennale. Are you some kind of mentor to the group?

Elsen: Certainly not. Corbinian Böhm and Michael Gruber of Empfangshalle did some remarkable projects long before they came to Augsburg, we can't take credit for that. What makes us happy is the fact that we worked together very recently and their invitation to the Biennale is definately reassuring. That their artistic quality and the way they work is seen positively elsewhere, too. We remain in contact since our project at the latest and that came about quite naturally.

Ritter: Empfangshalle is an example of a kind of art that ist non-commercial, project-related and not interested in the production of artefacts. In your collection is their work „Aufseherbrunnen“, four photos that probably have become more valuable now. Were you interested (and successful) in making this difficult kind of concept art fashionable?

Elsen: In Augsburg at least. Empfangshalle didn't invent this kind of art, it can be traced back to the 60ies. With Joseph Beuys at the latest, socially relevant art became international. Minimal, concept art, arte povera can be traced back quite a while but are still unusual for the situation in our city. We also did this Clegg & Guttmann project with the Gesellschaft für Gegenwartskunst some years ago – we still have a photo here, "The open public library". As a consequence there is a book shelf in the Hofgarten-park. People just use it as some kind of community offer, even if they don't know about Clegg & Guttmann. It's a nice achievement if you succeed in doing something that has more than just symbolic meaning, something that concretely improves a situation for the citizens of a city.

Ritter: Here at H2 the program features quite a wide range of works, covering positions of 20th and 21th century, Rupprechts Geigers "Pink contra orange" faces "American Portraits" by Felix Weinold... on a second glance it seems that the former is about abstraction and the latter puts itself in opposition to it – as it maybe suits the current program, more content, less formalism? Weinhold for instance uses colorfields to cover the individual faces. Does contrast equal concept here, or, rather, do you just try to mirror contemporary developments in the art scene?

Elsen: It's hard to say if it ist possible to mirror them. We certainly try to give a well-balanced impression. Meaning, the showcased contrasts are not just accidentally, we aim at delivering a broad spectrum. We have to react on what is happening in the art scene and mediate it to the audience, ideally with examples that are provocative in a positive sense, that get people to react to them in any way. If we succeed a live, communicative channel is established between viewer and artwork, maybe making people that regard art sceptically more accessible for it.

Ritter: You talk about this as 'staging' in a catalogue. Do you decide yourself where to put which paintings?

Elsen: With solo shows like Fabrizio Plessis LAVA installation it's more a matter of the artist's decision. We are in a constant dialogue, but this of course would be the artist's staging. He takes the part of the director in his play. As far as our collection is concerned the decision is ours or mine. What we see here is staged, too. As we alternate between shows of our collection and special exhibitions we aim at confronting art in new ways continually, at inducing new ways of communication. In such a way that people know „it's worthwhile going there again now“. Hopefully we will acquire new works and will be able to vary things even more.

The way things are staged is important because it is related closely to the exhibition space. We were very much determined to keep the individual ambience of it. The Glass Palace is a historical industrial building, formerly housing a cotton spinning company. Its unique character, vast rooms, lighting conditions and broad interior impression – all that was to be completely preserved and meant to enter a dialogue with the artworks. That, and how art manifests itself here is strongly connected with the atmosphere of the building.

Ritter: Especially large scale sculptures like Sebastian Walther's house trailer "Big Trip" or the "Vapour Figures" by Tony Cragg - are they a kind of favourite objects? Is there some sort of tendency to prefer sculptural works?

Elsen: Three-dimensional in the broadest sense, in a room that has little natural space for hanging art. The large glass panorama, the columns and the broad room, here things can unfold a very special effect. If we had small cabinets we also would have more space for hanging and we would take that into account... but as it is, because of the distances and the perspectives we can showcase dimensionality in a thoroughly different way. The room is a sculpture by itself, really.

Ritter: I*ve just read that Alexander Horwarth (who is responsible for the film program of documenta 12) said museums couldn't use window fronts at all, usually art is in the lower levels of, say, the Nationalgalerie while the brighter upper levels are more for the visitors. Maybe industrial buildings are rededicated to art halls for social reasons, too – and you might use moveable walls and have your cabinets – so could you say open space is no problem at all ? Is Horwarth's idea just too far-fetched?

Elsen: Not completely, talking about the Nationalgalerie, achitectonically charming windows take up a lot of hanging space. The point is, do you really have to hang anything there? There are more possibilities to use this wonderful room. The point is, how do you programmatically react to this situation? There is no such thing as the ideal museum. Many prestigious new houses have some issues, too. There are conflicts with the architects who want to include a giant staircase which might be nice but takes up a lot of space. For instance in Cologne the Ludwig Museum, there was a major debate when the first show had to be shifted to another place, namely the exhibition halls in Deutz, which is quite absurd. I mean to say, it's not a problem inherent to art spaces in industrial architectures.

A crucial point is the atmosphere a building conveys. Visitors, I believe, feel it once they put their foot inside even before they perceive singular objects. It is a major plus for the presented art if the visitor feels comfortable in the exhibition hall.

Ritter: We talked about two aspects that stand for general tendencies, first the rededication of industrial buildings and second (talking about Corbinian Böhm and Michael Gruber) that artists with a sculptural background make art in the public sphere. The works of Empfangshalle are closely focused on some specific urban situation and group of people – as in „woher, wohin“, the project with the workers of the waste disposal service which received strong feedback even in not art-related press.

It addressed a broad audience and was received positively throughout the institutions. Is it a general trend – assuming that it is something else than plain concept art, in the sense it makes things more accessible, bring it closer to the people?

Elsen: I am sure this is the case. What might sound a little awkward at first, what some consider to be only loosely connected to art or whatever, like starting a dialogue as in the projects of Empfangshalle. This is not about a discursive, descriptive type of thing, rather it is about direct communication. Talking about the project you mentioned, not only was there media response to the work, but also people themselves did talk to each other and the artists about their personal situation and eventally came to the question „why is this art?“ Now if you would give the workers of the waste disposal service tickets for an exhibition, how many would come? If it's a general trend I can't say, but it is a remarkable artistic strategy in any case. On the whole there is more willingness for communication than if art is presented classically as a confrontation with the viewer: there is the painting, here am I, and now I have to get along with it somehow. Empfangshalle annihilate the distance between art and recipient, you enter a realm of communication before you made your first step. That's certainly a nice perspective for dealing with art today.

Ritter: Dr. Elsen, thanks a lot for the conversation.

H2 - Zentrum für Gegenwartskunst im Glaspalast

Am Glaspalast 1 /Amagasakiallee

86153 Augsburg

Director:

Dr. Thomas Elsen

Phone 0049 821- 324 - 4107

Fax (0049 821) 324 - 4105

Opening Hours

Di 10.00 - 20.00

Mi - So 10.00 - 17.00

Exhibition

Die Neue Sammlung II

04/05/2007 - 10/31/07

Neue Galerie im Höhmannhaus

Maximilianstraße 48

D-86150 Augsburg

kunstsammlungen.stadt@augsburg.de

Opening Hours Di 10-20 Uhr, Mi-So 10-17 Uhr

Exhibition

Kathrin Ahlt

TMP.36,0

08/23/2007 – 10/28/2007

WochenKlausur

06/26/07 to 08/19/07

Photos: Ulrike Ritter

English Translation: Pascal Unbehaun

German versions on www.kunst-spektrum.de and www.artou.de.